A DEAL between the two formations of the Movement for Democratic Change and the Zanu PF party is likely to be signed in the next few days as the opposition groups have accepted that President Robert Mugabe’s re-election on June 29 was non-negotiable.
The three principals to the talks–President Mugabe, MDC leader Professor Arthur Mutambara and his MDC-T counterpart Morgan Tsvangirai–are currently locked in talks with the South African President, Thabo Mbeki.
A breakthrough is said to be on the horizon as the leaders are said to be thrashing out the final details of a deal to create an all-inclusive government, after the presidential run-off elections earlier this year.
State media reported Sunday that the two MDCs had agreed that President Mugabe be recognised as the winner of the run-off presidential election, a position taken by the Zanu PF decision making body, the Politburo prior to the negotiations.
Zimbabwe’s presidential spokesman, George Charamba indicated yesterday that talks had reached “a milestone” and progress had been made on key issues.
This is an important milestone that has been registered in the inter-party dialogue," Charamba said, referring to the ongoing meetings by Mbeki and the leadership of the two sides.
Common agreements are said to have been reached in relation to the land issue, sanctions,sovereignty, non-interference, freedom of assembly and association, the media and sanctions.
The recognition of President Mugabe and the June 27 results was heralded as a milestone.
As part of the negotiation, the Zanu PF mediating team had been advised that the issue of Presidency was non-negotiable. Zanu PF top decision making body, the Politburo decided that the outcome of the June 27 ballot although boycotted by opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai, had to be respected as it was underpinned by requirements of Zimbabwe’s law that if there is no winner with the required majority in the first round of a presidential election, there shall be a run-off
President Mugabe will retain executive powers in the all-inclusive government. A role for Tsvangirai was still being negotiated, but media speculation was pointing at a possible creation of a post of Prime Minister with limited powers.
Zanu PF last month indicated that there has to be a leader who appoints an all-inclusive government envisaged in the Memorandum of Understanding signed by the three parties. And that figure is President Mugabe who won the run-off.
President Mugabe is reported to be very passionate about retaining Zimbabwe’s sovereignty and the right to self-determination.
Ongoing talks are focussing on “the structure and scope of the new government,” according to The Sunday Mail newspaper.
President Mbeki met the leaders separately at the RainbowTowers hotel. Mbeki first met opposition Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) leader Morgan Tsvangirai and then met President Mugabe. Details of their discussions were not available, but MDC-T Secretary General and chief negotiator, Tendai Bit told reporters that progress had been made. He made a terse statement: “I think we all need to pray”.
AHA • waltermurder@yahoo.co.uk Subject: not the one below Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:26:15 • OMUHLE...drop one on this email not the one below..sorry...read the one below to uderstand this message first though
yes • echanakira@yahoo.com Subject: okay Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:18:04 • OMUHLE I HAVE GREAT RESPECT FOR YOU FOR ADMITTING YOUR MISTAKE NOT ALL MAN ARE MAN ENOUGH TO ADMIT THEIR MISTAKES...GREAT MAN ARE NOT SHAPED MY THEIR MISTAKES BUT BY THE ABILITY TO RISE FROM THOSE MISTAKES...
AND I HAVE NO DOUBT AT ALL THAT YOU ARE ONE OF THOSE.
WE NEVER ARGUED KUTI VANHU VAKAROHWA WE ACTAULLY PUT THAT FACT AND WE WERE ARGUING WETHER IT WAS POSSIBLE KUTI AWANE 85% MUNA JUNE IYE AKAWANA 43% MUNA MARCH.
AND WE SAID IT WAS POSSIBBLE YES NEKUTI KANA PAVOTA 2,4 MILLION MUNA MARCH. 3.5 MILLION VASINA KU VHOTA.. THEN KANA ALMOST HALF YAKE YEMUNA MARCH YAKAVHOTA MUNA JUNE AND TIKATI LETS SAY NEIMWE HALF YAKE PA 3,5 MILLION YAKAVHOTA FUTI MUNA JUNE THEN YES IT IS POSSIBLE..EVEN IF ALL THE MDC'S SUPPORTERS HAD BOYCOTTED BECAUSE THE TOTAL NUMBER OF MUGABE'S SUPPORTERS IN MARCH 1,079 MILLION AND SUPPOSE HE HAD ANOTHER 43% OF SUPPORTERS FROM THE 3,5 MILLION WHO DIDNT VOTE WICH IS 1,505000 MILLION..IF THEY ALL VOTED IN JUNE THEN YOU WOULD COME UP WITH 2,584 000 AND THE TOTAL NUMBER OF JUNE VOTES WAS 2 514 750
AND WE WENT ON FURTHER TO SAY NE VANHU VAIROHWA PLUS VAMWE VE MDC VAKAZOVHOTERA ZANU OUT OF FEAR AND ALSO SOME OF MAVAMBO SUPPORTERS
IF GO BACK AND READ SOME OF THE ARTICLES WE ACTUALLY SAID ITS GOOD TO EXPOSE VIOLENCE AND THINGS LIKE INTIMIDATION WE WERE NOT ARGUING WETHER THERE WAS VIOLENCE OR NOT...EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT.
DROP ME ONE ON MA EMAIL ABOVE YOU SOMEONE WHO I CAN LEARN FROM.
BECAUSE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO ADMIT YOUR MISTAKES AND ALSO SOME OF YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS ARE GREAT.
SERIOUSLY DROP ONE....
AND KEEP ON THE GOOD WORK...
Omuhle • n/a Subject: n/a Thu, 14 Aug 2008 00:44:17 • Fine....I am man enough to admit you guys wiggled your way out of this. First we argued maths dzekuti MDC supporters boycotted and only ZANU PF supporters (are they still called supporters given you guys openly admit makarova vanhu? kuita kutinha kunovhota!) voted.
We were attempting to prove kuti 43% of 2.5 million is some 1.079 million so to get 85% assumes only the 1.079 million voted in round 2 (plus some others from Makoni and a few MDC)
However when I showed you kuti vanhu vakavhota were more than 1.079million you turned around and said more voters had come out and your argument was based on the total electorate registered in the country. Well, I can't argue with that. Fact is there are close to 6million voters in the country so you could be right. However, I can take solace from the fact that if there are 6 million voters and only ZANU PF voters came to vote in round 2 and they only numbered 2.5 million then the remaining 3.5million are MDC supporters or don't support ZANU PF. The day democracy returns you shall see this number. We shall have a rally in Harare and the truth shall out.
For now, I concede. Mawhinha but only just........next time I will leave you guys no room to turn around.
B4 WE MOVE ON • echanakira@yahoo.co.uk Subject: alalalalallaa Wed, 13 Aug 2008 23:04:20 • shamwari you only proved your mistakes and mis calculations to say you proved yourself mathematically its beyond comprehension.
iam going repeat again here and move on as you said
total vote cast in march were around 2,4 million right? total vote of those who didnt vote around 3,5 million saka if mugabe got almost half in march what makes you think pane vanhu vasina kuvhota 3,5 million vamwe 43% vaimusapota. saka what if ma supporter a mugabe pa that 3,5 million vkazovhota muna june..the total will eclipse the march total by far
now caculate 43% of 3.5 million and add that number to the march number for mugabe its simple as that ..its possible saka kana uchiti you proved that its not possible what do you mean. its possible chero vatsvangirai de vasina kuvhota.
now you saying we opened a new frontier no new frontier was opened but it was left deliberately to exspose your short comings. when you make a move make sure the road is clear a head and always leave room for mistakes.
ok now you say its not possible because of inflation and border jumping etc...should we take this as a new frontier .
ok u think munhu akabitirwa pfuti kuti enda kunovhota angati no kune inflation..and most of those border jumers were MDC supporters anyway they didnt affect zanu's support but the other way.
the argument is not how he got the vote, but wether it was possible and the asnwer is yes .
yes exposing things like violence and indimidation its ok its a good thing to do that, but when you say something is impossible when its possible its a diffrent game alltogether.
i do read some some of contributions here and they are very good i should admit but apa baba bvumai zviri possible makaita mistake
its not a mistake to make a mistake,but its a mistake to repeat a mistake and you are the one who should swallow your pride and admit given the numbers that its possible.
cant wait for another debate this was interesting wakambozoma ku debater
keep it up, but leave room for errors as i said before
OMUHLE OK WE MOVE ON AS YOU SAID, BUT IF YOU DONT GET THIS THEN AAAH!!!
ANWAY WERE ARE YOU ..YOU ARE A GOOD PERSON TO DEBATE WITH BECAUSE YOU CAN DEFEND SOMETHING WICH IS WRONG AND MAKE IT LOOK LIKE ITS RIGHT
hahahahaha • bmukucha@yahoo.co.uk Subject: hapana apa maths dzapera Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:58:36 • you didnt prove anything because you didnt take into consideration the total number of eligible voters and those who didnt vote with those numbers of registered voters who didnt vote its posibble to jump from 43% to 85%.
if he managed to get 43% out of the 2 497 265 what makes you think out the 3.7 million who didnt vote he could not get 43% if his supporters voted
yes moving foward is a good think and we not arguing about you exposing the other wrongs like violence and indimidation thats a good thing to do, but in terms of wether it was possible OMUHLE tarisa manumber ayo yes it was very much possible.
I didnt open another frontier only wanted to leave you exposed and see if you will see sense.
when you make amove see that were you are going its clear before you move and leave room for errors
now u saying because of inflation and border jumpers its not possible.SHOULD I TAKE THIS AS ANOTHER FRONTIER OK. inflation can hit hard yes but chero pane inflation if you are forced to vote like zvaitika kumamisha kuti people were driven KUMA polling box ungarege kuvhota uchiti pane inflation munhu akabata pfuti.
how about border jumping ,,,the majority of border jumpers were MDC voters anway..some of them not registered and some are kids below the age of voting...so considering that many MDC supporters ran away and many boycotted ....you even making your case weaker
argument ndeye manumbers wether its was possible ne ma numbers aripo...its not about wether people were forced or not. everybody knows people were forced.
de panga pane 2.5 million registered voters only in zimbabwe then you would have acase because u cant increase number yevanhu vari registered allready ne kuvarova chete, but vanhu vanga varipo kudhara only that they didnt vote in the first election and thay were forced to do so muna june
NHAI VAKOMANA 5,9 MILLION VOTERS 2,4 MILLION VO VOTER MUNA MARCH..MEANING 3,5 DIDNT VOTE IN MARCH
shamwari marovero akaitwa vanhu kumusha uku..apa uchinzwa kuti vanhu vari kutariswa chigunwe kuti va voter here.
as i said before argument is not about how he got the numbers but wether it was possible to get 85% in june and because of those numbers of registered voters indimidation and violence it was possible.
it was even possible pasina violence nemanumbers aripo taking into consideration kuti kana support yake out of the 3,5 million vasina ku vhota vakazoenda muna june plus vemuna march minus all tsvangirai's supporters still the number will increase.
so for you to say you proved your point..yes you did prove the point that u made a mistake.
the numbers add up shamwari..
ITS NOT A MISTAKE TO MAKE A MISTAKE,BUT ITS MISTAKE TO REPEAT A MISTAKE. I HAVE SEEN SOME OF YOUR WRITINGS AND I SHOULD ADMIT THEY ARE VERY GOOD. I USSUALLY READ THEM AND FIND NOTHING TO OPOSSE BUT HERE OMUHLE ITS A MISTAKE IT WAS POSSIBLE TO GET THAT PERCENTAGE IN TERMS OF NUMBERS ONLY
ANWAY IT WAS A GOOD DEBATE CANT WAIT FOR ANOTHER TOPIC AS YOU SAID.
hahahahaha • bmukucha@yahoo.co.uk Subject: hapana apa maths dzapera Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:52:47 • you didnt prove anything because you didnt take into consideration the total number of eligible voters and those who didnt vote with those numbers of registered voters who didnt vote its posibble to jump from 43% to 85%.
if he managed to get 43% out of the 2 497 265 what makes you think out the 3.7 million who didnt vote he could not get 43% if his supporters voted
yes moving foward is a good think and we not arguing about you exposing the other wrongs like violence and indimidation thats a good thing to do, but in terms of wether it was possible OMUHLE tarisa manumber ayo yes it was very much possible.
I didnt open another frontier only wanted to leave you exposed and see if you will see sense.
when you make amove see that were you are going its clear before you move and leave room for errors
now u saying because of inflation and border jumpers its not possible.SHOULD I TAKE THIS AS ANOTHER FRONTIER OK. inflation can hit hard yes but chero pane inflation if you are forced to vote like zvaitika kumamisha kuti people were driven KUMA polling box ungarege kuvhota uchiti pane inflation munhu akabata pfuti.
how about border jumping ,,,the majority of border jumpers were MDC voters anway..some of them not registered and some are kids below the age of voting...so considering that many MDC supporters ran away and many boycotted ....you even making your case weaker
argument ndeye manumbers wether its was possible ne ma numbers aripo...its not about wether people were forced or not. everybody knows people were forced.
de panga pane 2.5 million registered voters only in zimbabwe then you would have acase because u cant increase number yevanhu vari registered allready ne kuvarova chete, but vanhu vanga varipo kudhara only that they didnt vote in the first election and thay were forced to do so muna june
NHAI VAKOMANA 5,9 MILLION VOTERS 2,4 MILLION VO VOTER MUNA MARCH..MEANING 3,5 DIDNT VOTE IN MARCH
shamwari marovero akaitwa vanhu kumusha uku..apa uchinzwa kuti vanhu vari kutariswa chigunwe kuti va voter here.
as i said before argument is not about how he got the numbers but wether it was possible to get 85% in june and because of those numbers of registered voters indimidation and violence it was possible.
it was even possible pasina violence nemanumbers aripo taking into consideration kuti kana support yake out of the 3,5 million vasina ku vhota vakazoenda muna june plus vemuna march minus all tsvangirai's supporters still the number will increase.
so for you to say you proved your point..yes you did prove the point that u made a mistake.
the numbers add up shamwari..
ITS NOT A MISTAKE TO MAKE A MISTAKE,BUT ITS MISTAKE TO REPEAT A MISTAKE.
ANWAY IT WAS A GOOD DEBATE CANT WAIT FOR ANOTHER TOPIC AS YOU SAID.
Omuhle • n/a Subject: n/a Tue, 12 Aug 2008 22:11:52 • Kana ndimiwo, varume? Is that logical? Anyway, I proved my point on the mathematical probability or improbability of Mugabe voters translating from 43% to 85% in the space of 3 months with rampant inflation, border jumping and so on. The gentleman's argument is not logical and he knows it. First you say it is possible and when I prove it is not possible you open another frontier of argument which you know is not true. Until you guys (and ZANU PF) can accept when you are wrong the country is not going anywhere, talks or no talks. The day you guys swallow your pride and accept your wrongs, your infallibility is the day we can start to heal. As for me, I can only expose and show the wrongs committed, show the way forward. I can't force it upon you. We'll pick on another topic tomorrow and show the way forward. It's up to ou to accept it or not. Zviuya zvirimberi.
NEWEWO N/A • sibonisiwe@yahoo.co.uk Subject: SO WHAT Tue, 12 Aug 2008 21:41:53 • ABOUT 5.9 MILLION REGISTERED VOTERS SO EVEN IF MORE PEOPLE VOTED IN JUNE THAN IN MARCH ITS POSSIBLE REMEMBER ALMOST 3.7 MILLION OF THE REGISTERED VOTERS DIDNT VOTE IN MARCH, SO GIVEN THAT MORE PEOPLE DID NOT VOTE IN MARCH THAN THOSE WHO VOTED!!!! YES THE NUMBERS ADD UP. LIKE CHANAKIRA SAID SAY OUT OF THE 3,7MILLION WHO DIDNT VOTE IN MARCH LETS GIVE TSVANGIRAI 2 MILLION AND MUGABE 1,5MILLION.AND SUPPOSE MUGABE'S SUPPORTERS VOTED AND TSVANGIRAI,S DIDNT. IF U ADD 1.2 MILLION 1,7MILLION THAT HE GOT IN THE FIRST PLACE THE TOTAL NUMBER OF VOTERS ECLIPSE THE MARCH TOTAL..END OF STORY...DONT JUST ARGUE FOR THE SAKE OF IT...HAPANA NYAYA APA..IWE NDIWE WATOZORATIDZWA..NYAYA YAPERA ...PERIOD
NEWEWO N/A • sibonisiwe@yahoo.co.uk Subject: SO WHAT Tue, 12 Aug 2008 21:41:08 • ABOUT 5.9 MILLION REGISTERED VOTERS SO EVEN IF MORE PEOPLE VOTED IN JUNE THAN IN MARCH ITS POSSIBLE REMEMBER ALMOST 3.7 MILLION OF THE REGISTERED VOTERS DIDNT VOTE IN MARCH, SO GIVEN THAT MORE PEOPLE DID NOT VOTE IN MARCH THAN THOSE WHO VOTED!!!! YES THE NUMBERS ADD UP. LIKE CHANAKIRA SAID SAY OUT OF THE 3,7MILLION WHO DIDNT VOTE IN MARCH LETS GIVE TSVANGIRAI 2 MILLION AND MUGABE 1,5MILLION.AND SUPPOSE MUGABE'S SUPPORTERS VOTED AND TSVANGIRAI,S DIDNT. IF U ADD 1.2 MILLION 1,7MILLION THAT HE GOT IN THE FIRST PLACE THE TOTAL NUMBER OF VOTERS ECLIPSE THE MARCH TOTAL..END OF STORY...DONT JUST ARGUE FOR THE SAKE OF IT...HAPANA NYAYA APA..IWE NDIWE WATOZORATIDZWA..NYAYA YAPERA ...PERIOD
zviripachena • echanakira@yahoo.com Subject: correction Tue, 12 Aug 2008 20:21:08 • ACTUALLY THERE ARE 5 934 768 REGSITERED VOTERS....NDANGA NDATOBIRIRA VAMUGABE...WHICH MEANS THREE MILLION PLUS DIDNT VOTE IN MARCH
ZVIRIPACHENA • echanakira@yahoo.com Subject: explaining your maths Tue, 12 Aug 2008 20:07:17 • March Election:
Mugabe got 1 079 730
Tsvangirayi got 1 195 562
Makoni got 207 470
Tawungana got 14 503
Total 2 497 265 fine there are about 4million plus registered voters in zimbabwe which means another 2million plus voters didnt vote in march given that he almost got half of the march elections he must have had considerable support from the 2 million plus who didnt vote...ok here we go
In June:
Mugabe suddenly got 2 150 269
Tsvangirayi got 233 000
Total 2 514 750
now add MUGABE'S supporters from march 1 079 730 and the million plus or so from the 2million pus who didnt vote in march who didnt vote in march suppose they turned up to vote.
1 079 730 1000 000 and dont underestimate the impact of violence especially in the rural areas even those who voted for MDC most of them chnged and voted for mugabe out of fear...now whats your total from the above numbers plus some from the 200 000 thousand or so from makoni were zanu pf in and out who voted for makoni cause they viewed him as one of their own they just wanted change, but not that of tsvangirai. iam not saying all but some of them woud have voted zanu in june
i dont need to explain tsvangirai's low number in june because..most of them boycotted and some were cowed into voting...and remember people were driven to elections by soldiers and the green bombers.
still possible that he got 85%...mainly because of out of fear..and the boycot by tsvangirai's supporters....we not arguing how he got the 85%, but wether it was possible and the answer is yes indeed very much possible
NOW IF YOU DONT GET THAT CHIENDA KUNOTANGA KU PRE SCHOOL...
ZVIRIPACHENA • echanakira@yahoo.com Subject: explaining your maths Tue, 12 Aug 2008 19:57:33 • March Election:
Mugabe got 1 079 730
Tsvangirayi got 1 195 562
Makoni got 207 470
Tawungana got 14 503
Total 2 497 265 fine there are about 4million plus registered voters in zimbabwe which means another 2million plus voters didnt vote in march given that he almost got half of the march elections he must have had considerable support from the 2 million plus who didnt vote...ok here we go
In June:
Mugabe suddenly got 2 150 269
Tsvangirayi got 233 000
Total 2 514 750
now add MUGABE'S supporters from march 1 079 730 and the million plus or so who didnt vote in march suppose they turned up to vote.
1 079 730 1000 000 and dont underestimate the fear of violonce especially in the rural areas even those who voted for MDC most of them chnged and voted for mugabe out of fear...now whats your toal from the above numbers plus some from the 200 000 thousand or so from makoni were zanu pf in and out who voted for makoni cause they viewed him as one of their own.iam not saying all but some of them woud have voted zanu in june
i dont need to explain tsvangirai's low number in june because..most of them boycotted and some were cowed into voting...and remember people were driven to elections by soldiers and the green bombers.
still possible that he got 85%...mainly because of out of fear..and the boycot by tsvangirai's supporters....
n/a • n/a Subject: n/a Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:09:21 • Hey!.......finished. Maratidzwa varume. End of your lecture.
Omulhe 2 - the rest of you, ZERO. Game over!
I can't think of anything else you guys can add to this. The guy or girl is spot on. The numbers didn't change so how can you guys say MDC supporters boycotted?
And to think you guys were already smelling blood....This young man or woman has been writing some really sensible stuff on here . I'll look out for more of the same from her or him (iwe Omulhe, tiudze if you are a male or female) Inga tinevanhu vakadzidza vekumusha. Makwaturwa mese, makuseniseni machena, marohwa nesvomo.
RG's total percentage went up and you said it was because MDC boycotted and only ZANU PF members voted but izvo, ndatotarisa the offisial results ende ichokwadi, more people voted in June than in March and further futi RG had more votes than before.
I think the laest you guys could do is apologise or atleast acknowledge to Omulhe that he/she is spot on. Kunyanya Walter and Sibonisiwe. You two even told him/her to go back to school, uyasiyangisa (hameno zvinoreveyi izvo). If you guys are not the See tens we hear about then swallow your pride and admit the guy/girl is spot on. The numbers are fishy to say the lest.
Omuhle • n/a Subject: n/a Tue, 12 Aug 2008 12:31:31 • Right, I see you guys think I am as daft as some of you, some of you are as daft as you think I am. Either way, I think you are as daft as some of your think I am. So let's crunch numbers. Here are the actual figures.
March Election:
Mugabe got 1 079 730
Tsvangirayi got 1 195 562
Makoni got 207 470
Tawungana got 14 503
Total 2 497 265
In June:
Mugabe suddenly got 2 150 269
Tsvangirayi got 233 000
Total 2 514 750
Now from this you can see that there were more people who voted in the run off than in the first round. This in spite of the fact there was more violence in the run off than in the first round, the MDC had boycotted the second round and a lot of people had fled violence from their places of registration. But I digress....
So if 43% of 2.5 million is just over a million (infact lets give Mugabe the totals for the other 2 candidates - 52% of 2.5 million is about 1.3million) it follows that the 100% of voters in the run-off should not be more than 1.3million because we are saying only Mugabe, Makoni and tawungana voters came out to vote, unless you are saying another 3 quarters of a million came to vote in round two.
If you add Mugabe's, Makoni’s and Tawungana’s totals in round 1 you get 1.3million. Let's say these are the people who came out to vote in the second round and let's even hypothesise that they all voted Mugabe. Where did the other 1.2million people come from? Unless you are telling me MDC supporters decided to vote Mugabe in the second round?
You see, you guys decided to argue on the basis of math but forgot that this has to be applied to reality and events on the ground. I understand the whole concept of percentages. You can have a constant percentage around a constant figure but the percentage changes in line with a variable figure. So 43% percent of 2.5million cannot become 85% of 2.5million again when you consider that your assumption was that only Mugabe, Makoni and tawungana voters came out for the second round. So the total number of voters remained constant but miraculously more voted for Mugabe than in the first round yet by admission we know those who voted Tsvangirayi boycotted the second round and even if they didn't, what are the odds of them all voting Mugabe in round two? Can we safely make another hypothesis that they voted Jongwe?
I tried to explain it to you guys at ward or constituency level as well but you obviously ignored me because you were so hung up on proving a mathematical probability, which doesn't translate into reality. I'll try again:
In Bulawayo East 97200 people voted. Tsvangirayi won 25 out of 29 wards to get 86% of the vote and Makoni got the other 4 wards, translating to 13%. Mugabe didn't register a percentage. So let's say in the run off only those who voted Mugabe and Makoni came out to vote again. We should see that 13% translate to become 100% of the voters but that total number of voters should be 13% of 97000, which is 12.6thousand. Let's assume they all voted Jongwe anyway. Can any of you guys tell me what the figures were for Bulawayo East in the run-off? Calculate 85% of the 12.6 thousand who voted and compare it with the figure Jongwe gave himself? I'm not saying he got the same 85% of the Byo East vote but as an indicative figure it's the most we can assume, as it is also the national figure he won by. Okay, even give him 100% of the vote in Bulawayo East. There should only be a total of 12.6 thousand votes for him in round 2 but lo and behold. Zvimwe zvinotonyadzisa. How can more people vote in the run-off and at the same time you say the opposition boycotted so that accounted for ZANU PF percentage increasing? It can only increase if the ZANU PF voters are the total number of voters but we can clearly see the total voting numbers did not change. 2.497 million voted in March and even more than that voted in June so does it mean MDC voters came and voted as well and they also voted Jongwe for him to get 85%? I can go on for days but if any of you would care to think twice before trading insults.
Chanakira, ndakadzidza kwaTsambe, KuChishawasha kuNUST nepaMcGill but that doesn’t mean anything in this instant. If you guys didn't understand any of this dzokerayi monopiwa school fees dzevabereki venyu. Makabirwa.
Omuhle • n/a Subject: n/a Tue, 12 Aug 2008 11:59:08 • Right, I see you guys think I am as daft as some of you, some of you are as daft as you think I am. Either way, I think you are as daft as some of your think I am. So let's crunch numbers. Here are the actual figures.
March Election:
Mugabe got 1 079 730
Tsvangirayi got 1 195 562
Makoni got 207 470
Tawungana got 14 503
Total 2 497 265
In June:
Mugabe suddenly got 2 150 269
Tsvangirayi got 233 000
Total 2 514 750
Now from this you cansee that there were more people who voted in the run off than in the first round. This inspite of the fact there was more violence in the run off than in the first round, the MDC had boycotted the second round and alot of people had fled violence from their places of registration. but I digress....
So if 43% of 2.5 million is just over a million (infact lets give Mugabe the totals for the other 2 candidates - 52% of 2.5 million is about 1.3million) it follows that the 85% of x voters in the run-off should not be more more than this same number of voters 1.3million because we are saying only Mugabe's voters came out to vote unless you are saying another 3 quarters of a million came to vote in round two.
So if you add Mugabe's, Makoni's and Tawungana's totals in round 1 you get 1.3million. So let's say these are the people who came out to vote in the second round and let's even hypothesise that they all voted Mugabe. Where did the other 848 thousand people come from? unless you are telling me MDC supporters decided to vote Mugabe in the second round?
You see, you guys decided to argue on the basis of math but forgot that this has to be applied to reality and events on the ground. I understand the whole concept of percentages. You can have a constant percentage around a constant figure but the percentage changes in line with a variable figure. So 43% percent of 2.5million cannot become 85% of 2.5million again when you consider that your assumption was that only Mugabe, Makoni and tawungana voters came out for the second round. So the total number of voters remained constant but miraculously more voted for Mugabe than in the first round yet by admission we know those who voted Tsvangirayi boycotted the second round and even if they didn't what are the odds of them all voting Mugabe in round two? Can we safely make another hypothesis that they voted Jongwe?
I tried to explain it to you guys at ward or constituency level as well but you obviously ignored me because you were so hung up on proving a mathematical probability which doesn't translate into reality. I'll try again:
In Bulawayo East 97200 people voted. Tsvangirayi won 25 out of 29 wards to get 83% of the vote and makoni got the other 4 translated to 13%. Mugabe didn't register a percentage. So let's say in the run off only those who voted Mugabe and Makoni came out to vote again. We should see that 13% translate to become 100% of the voters but the total number of voters should be 13% of 97000 which is 12.6thousand. Let's assume they all voted Jongwe anyway. Now can any of you guys tell me what the figures were for Bulawayo East in the run-off? Calculate 85% of the 12.6 thousand who voted and compare it with the figure Jongwe gave himself? I'm not saying he got the same 85% of the Byo East vote but as an andicative figure it's the most we can assume. Okay, even give him 100% of the vote. How can more people vote in the run-off and at the same time you say the opposition voted so that accounted for ZANU PF vote increasing. it can only increase if the ZANU PF voters are the total voters but we can claearly see the total voting numbers did not change so it means MDC voters came and voted as well and it means they also voted Jongwe for him to get 85%. I can go on for days but if any of you would care to think twice before trading insults.
Chanakira, ndakadzidza kwaTsambe, KuChishawasha kuNUST nepaMcGill but that don't mean nothingin this instant. If you guys didn't understand any of this dzokerayi monopiwa school fees dzevabereki venyu. Makabirwa.
its not rocket science omuhle • echanakira@yahoo.com Subject: simple maths lesson Tue, 12 Aug 2008 10:56:21 • OMUHLE IF YOU WRITE AN EXAM TODAY AND YOU GET 43 OUT OF 100 YOUR PERCENTAGE RELATION IS 43% RIGHT??? AND IF YOU WRITE ANOTHER TEST NEXT WEEK WITH A TOTAL MARKS OF 43 AND IMAGINE THEY BRING BACK THE SAME 43 QUESTIONS THAT YOU GOT RIGHT ON THE PREVIOUS EXAM OBVIOUSLY YOU GONA GET 43 OUT OF 43 AND ACCORDING TO THAT RESULT YOU GET 100% OF THE EXAM. NOW LOOK HERE THE FACT THAT YOU GET 100% IS BECAUSE THEY HAVE DONE YOU A FAVOUR AND BROUGHT BACK THE ONLY QUESTIONS YOU KNOW WHICH EXACTLY WHAT MDC SUPPORTERS DID BY BOYCOTTING. MOSTLY ZANU PF SUPPORTERS WENT TO VOTE PLUS A FEW MDC AND MAVAMBO WHICH PROBABLY EXPLAINS WHY ZANU PF DIDNT GET 100% IN THE JUNE ELECTION. YES YOU MIGHT ARGUE AND SAY IF MDC SUPPORTERS HAD VOTED HE WOULDNT HAVE GOT 85% WHICH IS TRUE BUT YOU CALCULATE YOUR PERCENTAGE WITH THE NUMBER OF THOSE WHO VOTED..OBVIOUSLY YES HAVASI VANHU VESE VAKAVHOTA BUT PANE VAKAVHOTA IVAVO NDIPO PAUNO CALCULATOR PERCENTAGE YAKO.KANA UCHIDA KUCALCULATOR PANE VASINA KUVHOTA YES YOU CAN DO THAT AND SAY PA VHANHU VASINA KUVHOTA TSVANGIRAI HAS 100% SUPPORT THAT IS IF KANA VHANHU VESE VASINA KUVHOTA VCHIMUSAPOTA. FUNGA USATI WANYORA.WAKADZIDZA KUPI??
BEE • bmukucha@yahoo.com Subject: hahahahahahahha Mon, 11 Aug 2008 22:38:44 • omuhle its 85% of the vote. the vote meaning those who voted in june.we all know most mdc supporters didnt vote in june. if 10 000 voted in june the percentage would be calculated out 10 000. yes that dosent mean 10 000 people is the majority in zimbabwe,but nevertheless if you are calculating the june vote then you have to calculate the number who voted in june only. so yes its possible to get 85% from any number of voters. you seen to be arguing with your mind fixed on thnking that his support should have increased in june. for the percentage to rise...hell no the percantage increased because mdc supporters boycotted and those who voted in june were mainly zanu and the percentage is calculated from those who voted in june..not those who boycotted
UYASIYANGISA • sibonisiwe@yahoo.com Subject: bantu bakithi omuhle.....uya yangisa Mon, 11 Aug 2008 22:03:39 • omuhle its not 85% out of the march elections. its out of the june elections even if a lot of people had boycotted the june elections of which they did mainly MDC supporters. and lets assume 1000 people voted in june the low number being because of the boycot and out of the 1000 lets asume 850 voted for zanu. so yes u can say he got 85% of those who voted.his support did not increase at all, but out of those who voted in june its very much possible that he got 85% because most of them were zanu pf. it would have been a diffrent story if the mdc supporters didnt boycot the june elections
MHAI WHEEEEEEE • tariromad@yahoo.co.uk Subject: omuhleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee go back to school Mon, 11 Aug 2008 21:40:47 • WALTER IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT....its not that the people who voted for mugabe increased, but tsvangirai's supporters boycotted...so out of those few who voted they were mainly zanu pf..it was even possible to get 100% if all the mdc supporters had boycotted...from the first election say 1million voted for mugabe...and those 1million voted again in june the percentage would be calculated out of the june 1million not the march total....so do the maths 1million out of 1million whats the percentage there...ha shamwari..chibva warega kunyora...unonyadzisa
omuhle omubi • waltermurder@yahoo.co.uk Subject: omuhle omubi Mon, 11 Aug 2008 21:26:23 • shame hey its 85% out of the people who voted.....if 100 people vote in an election ..and say 85 vote for mugabe...the percentage is 85%...its about the percentage out of the total of people who voted how daft are you....i didnt say the percentage increased because of mavambo and mdc votes .....i stated that obviously 1,5 or 2 million people who voted for tsvangirai did not vote...the people who voted were entirely made up up of zanu pf...so even if only 100 people voted in the rerun the majority would have been zanu pf because mdc boycoted...so say 85 people voted for zanu what woul be the percentage....percentage can be caulculated out of any number ...10..20..30..1000...100000...its not like the number of people who voted for mugabe in the march increased in june...but the few that voted in june were mainly zanu...wether they were 100..or 1000 or 5000000 because mdc supporters didnt vote..so here u go if 800 000 people voted in june and 644 000 or so voted for mugabe..whats the percentage....god oh god god....
Omuhle • n/a Subject: Don't preach wrong math, in broad daylight Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:58:14 • Walter, wazoratidza hudofo hwako instead of the other way round.
Your argument that Mugabe got 43% in March and in June this 43% plus a few more from MDC and MAvambo constitutes all the voters and that explains why his figure jumped to 85%? Seriously, do you even believe that? Okay, say it is plausible and a mathematical probability were applied. Let's then look at the numbers of voters instead. How many people voted in March? Out of those how many voted for Mugabe? Then compare them with the total voters in June? There is no relation, especially at constituency level. We are not stupid, man! How can Mugabe get just close to a hundred votes in Bulawayo East in March and then 3 months down the line you claim those few who did vote for him in the area suddenly became over a thousand? Do you think Zimbabweans are so fickle that when Tsvangirayi withdrew they were adamant to vote for someone at all costs and voted for Mugabe whom they had rejected before?
I was abotu to accept the other guys comment that people changed their minds when they saw the convoys of returning Rhodesians and decided to back Mugabe. Not that this makes any sense at all because:
1. There were no such convoys, not even on the state owned media did we see any pictures of such.
2. Even if they were, the voters did not have much access to current news events in April and May and who would have told them (in such convincing fashion as to merit a jump from 43% to 85%) of these Rhodesians?
So try something else, but quite clearly you are not a mathematician so why have you attempted to use maths in your argument. There are fools out there. Not that anything is bad with been a fool but when a fool attempts to fool others to be as foolish as he is, he becomes an idiot!
Sekuru Mhofu • mhofuy@gmail.com Subject: Hatred does not pay Mon, 11 Aug 2008 10:20:32 • The writer is so bitter with PM TsvangiraI, how on earth can he recognise Mutamburi Aurthur as MDC leader and the PM as leader of MDC-T.Please can you be real and stop to be an idiot like Mutambara.I would like to set the record straight once and for all,His Excellency Prime Minister of the Republic of Zimbabwe, Morgan Tsvangirai is the Leader of the MDC while the overzealous Aurthur Mutamburi is a leader of a run-away little mdc of Welshman Ncube and Baba Sibanda (mdc-WN & GB)
Sekuru Mhofu • mhofuy@gmail.com Subject: The truth Mr writer Mon, 11 Aug 2008 10:13:41 • The writer is so bitter with PM Tsvangira, how on earth can he recognise Mutamburi Aurthur as MDC leader and the PM as leader of MDC-T.Please can you be real and stop to be an idiot like Mutambara.I would like to set the record straight once and for all,His Excellency Prime Minister of the Republic of Zimbabwe, Morgan Tsvangirai is the Leader of the MDC while the overzealous Aurthur Mutamburi is a leader of a run-away little mdc of Welshman Ncube and Baba Sibanda (mdc-WN & GB)
YOU ARE DULL YOURSELF • waltermurder@yahoo.co.uk Subject: simple maths Mon, 11 Aug 2008 01:52:11 • TAIVO you are one dull individual. Your argument that you have to be dull to believe that MUGABE won 85% of the vote, when he won 43% in the first election tells us two things. 1) its either you are ignorant or..2) you are dull at maths....for the simple reason below.
you have to remember that mugabe was re elected as lone candidate..therefore most MDC supporters did not vote so calculating the percentage which he won in june does not include the numbers in march.? if 2.5million people voted in march and mugabe won 43%...then most certainly the 43% that voted for mugabe voted again in june and out of 51% from tsvangirai a few voted and a few from mavambo as well. so check it if amillion people voted this time obviously they are entirely made up of zanu pf supporters and those are the numbers they calculate their percentage from.this an argument based on the mathematical point of view...you can get 85% of the vote from 10 voters..or 20.or 6....its simple mathematics....
n/a • n/a Subject: 50% 1 Requirement Not A Result of constitutional Amendment 18 Sun, 10 Aug 2008 20:49:31 • Lets give peace a chance. Bento you are right on most of the things you said but please note that the 50 1 % legal requirement IS NOT a result of Amendment No. 18. It has always been there in our constitution but was never required before because the elections then yielded an outright winner.
It only gained prominence this time round because the polls were too close and no one commanded more than 50% of the votes. If MDC is so confident of itself why is it trying to usurp the democratic right of people to choose their leaders by calling for the scraping of by elections. We all know how they gained those parliamentary seats and they know they cannot sustain their gains in future hence the above call.
Talks should succeed as they are necessary to check the activities of those who want to sell out.
zvichaita chete
Changamire Dombo • ChangamireDombo@rocketmail.com Subject: At Long Last Sun, 10 Aug 2008 17:46:46 • After all has been said and done, Zimbabwe must go ahead and take her place amongst all The Great Nations of The World.
Mother Zimbabwe, can still reclaim her top-spot as The Bread-Basket of Southern Africa. She is The Crown Jewel of Africa hence CJ Rhodes found it imperative to give her his name, he saw and knew what most people are just starting to realise now.
May The Good Lord grant the teams of negotiators enough strength to clear the remaining obstacles and allow every Tom, Dick and Harriet the opportunity to jump onto the bandwagon of rebuilding Our Beloved Country, Great Zimbabwe.
All reasonable people should now focus not on who won or lost what elections but the journey ahead. I trust we will have a not too big Cabinet and that those who may lose political office will take it down well.
Aluta Continua.
melusi • melunkomo@yahoo.com Subject: n/a Sun, 10 Aug 2008 17:37:21 • 'MDC accepts Mugabe as President'...provided he is powerless to do anything...This man has destroyed our everything and we need to take most of the power away from him to avoid further decline..He may seem safe at the moment but Gukurahundi is gonner haunt him to the grave...As for us we are already busy gathering evidence for the International tribunal to try him for the atrocities in Mat'land...Sizam'thola kuphela!!
Chihuri • n/a Subject: Bento - you are lost, ZANU PF on its way to oblivion Sun, 10 Aug 2008 16:25:07 • Bento, you are lost, very lost for that matter. Do you believe Zanu PF proganda. MDC withdrew from the elections because of voter intimidations that were perpetrated by Zanu PF. Ask everyone who reside in Zimbabwe. Tsvangirayi was not allowed to campaign even in urban areas. People were killed and a lot persecuted for supporting MDC. MDC poll agents were killed, chased away especially in rural areas. Rural areas were war zones, no people from outside the rural area were allowed to enter these areas. If you mange to enter, you were either killed, or one of your relatives killed. Then do you think Tsvangirayi in that case would go ahead to contest the election/erection. That is why he droped off. Mugabe needs Tsvangirayi to legitimize his presidency. This time no one is recognizing Mugabe's legitimacy. The economy is in the doldrums. Mugabe has no clue on what to do. So he needs Tsvangirayi to revive the economy. Tsvangirayi is the rightful choice of people to rule Zimbabwe, even Mugabe knows it. Anyway this is step to the destruction of Zanu PF. Zanu PF is on its way to oblivion. Mark my words. Mugabe is Zanu and Zanu is Mugabe. If Mugabe goes, Zanu also goes. Bento, if you are still in Zanu PF, it is not too late to jump ship otherwise you will history toegther with your party.
N/A • N/A Subject: Lets be Responsible enough Sun, 10 Aug 2008 14:47:09 • Taivo, I think we all need to be responsible and give the negotiations time to heal. If MDC and ZANU PF has agreed that it is in the interest of Zimbabweans for us to be united, then so be it. Zimbabweans need to close their ranks so as to prevent the vultures out there who are circles purportedly to scavenge of what remains if we batter each other to death. But vultures don't eat anything that is alive. So we must unite to keep alive and then ward off these vultures. Yes we have made ourselves sick to some extent, but we can also make ourselves better by responding to Dr Mbeki's medicine. Lets make positive contributions guys. Zimbabwe ndeyedu unless if Taivo is muvuyi.
Zuze • pollcat@hatmail.com Subject: Taivo Sun, 10 Aug 2008 14:45:31 • I agree 100% with the artical above Mugabe lost the elections, and he knows it . What good is Mugabe going to be in any goverment? he has destroyed the country and him being involved in any goverment of the future will only hold back the advancement of Zimbabwe. We can only hope that the MDC will not be conned by these murderers.
Mugabe is old, sick, and usless please go away an let Zimbabwe go forward.
GOD BLESS ZIMBABWE
Bento • N/a Subject: Kwakutopenga Uku Sun, 10 Aug 2008 14:38:04 • Kwakutopenga uku Taivo! Why do you choose to ignore the constitutional amendment that was agreed by all the parties which clearly stipulates that in the event that there are more than two candidates in a presidential election, if none of them achieves 51% then a run-off has to be held between two of the candidates with the highest votes. Tsvangirai refused to join in the run off under pressure from his western handlers who had realised that white Rhodesians had prematurely let the cat out of the bag by returning to Zimbabwe in convoys threatening to forcibly evict newly resettled farmers and reverse the land reform programme. That was the siesmic change that was needed to turn the electorate from the Rhodesians to Bob. You choose to be selectively ignorant of that requirement and yet you should be in the know. Its not as if Bob is dying to have these talks, its SA and Morgan. SA coz its economy can not function to its maximum best with calls for and sanctions against Zim as well as Mdc inspired demonisation of the country which is tantamount to economic terrorism practised by them and their masters in the West. Which is why you so stupendously and unashamedly repeat the Biti cry of Chitongai tione. Its absurd as it can only come from traitors. Bob can remain in power until global warming finishes us all coz there is a new kid on the block, that kid is China. Whilst their help cannot turn Zim into Eldorado, the Zim govt can still survive and Morgiza will remain in the political wilderness. So these talks are his chance to attain dizzing heights of political office. After all ZJC can not enable you to even become a member of the Zim Prison Service these days! So just chill out and welcome the talks, who knows you may be the Mdc nominee for District Administrator for Chegutu or Binga or whatever! There are too many for you to be accomodated in the new unfolding political dispensation! Remember Bob still has his people in some of those positions too whom he may need to move to make way for the mafikizolos. It probably explains why you are not a happy git!
Taivo • taivohy@yahoo.com Subject: MDC needs to be careful Sun, 10 Aug 2008 13:47:51 • I think MDC has to be very careful about Zanu PF's intentions. Why would Mugabe retain any power when it is clear that he lost the first election, and didn't have any hope of winning the second if it was held under free and fair conditions. One needs to be very dull to believe that Mugabe can get 85% vote in June when he could only manage 43% in March - when the economy was worsening in the intervening period. Why did Mugabe achieve that made people change their mind at such short notice.
I am not keen on a GNU because I believe that parties should be accountable for their actions. But if there is a transitional one, it has to be headed by someone from the MDC. Anyone who does not understand this will never understand anything.
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