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lmk • lml@yahoo.com Subject: how about Morgan Fri, 26 Dec 2008 23:30:21 • Ranga M glad you know that investigations into allegations of MDC training army are on going. I must also take this opportunity to inform you that Zim inteligence has been reliable over the past yrs. Consider this, it was the same that caught those man headed for the state house, chikurubi max prison, and E.Gunie. Courts in Sa and Equetorial G. has found these man guilty. so sure lets wait and find out!!!
About SA president saying it will come to naught, umm i doubt his words. at the same time he said these he promised a gvt of unit will be in place by the end of the week. Is is there??
lmk • lml@yahoo.com Subject: how about Morgan Fri, 26 Dec 2008 23:18:22 • we are all awre that Mr Morgan is in Botswana on an expired ETD. That would make him an illegal immegrant, does it?? Yes it does!! but was he deported as well as with his supporters???? M in SA on a valid work permit and do not see why pple should cross borders without full papers and why a leader would lead with such a bad example. Ok I hear your question but how do you expect Zanu Pf to get Moragn a passport when he was recently sitting with EU to get more names on the no travell list?????that is only a test of his own medicine. Now he must be deported from Bots!!
togarepi mavhiyangwena • tmbomv@yahoo.com Subject: Immigrants Thu, 25 Dec 2008 01:10:13 • RANGA. I have been following your arguments on many of the topics being debated here. You seem ill informed in most of the happenings and argue for the sake of arguing.Of note is the way you try to justify the expulsion of the 5000 Zimbabweans in BOTS. You sound like you were there and you have the first hand information on the happenings in Botswana.Worse still you have apointed yourself to be the PR of the admin.
Mbuso asked you a simple question on what you meant by illegal immigrant given the fact that some of the affected people have been working in BOTS for 20years.They had papers to prove they were hired legally? This nauseating jump to conclusion syndrome you are exhibiting does not help any one in Zimbabwe.
You defend BOTS like you are a Tswana. May be they are trying to cover up for the so called Dissident training programmes. Read widely because there are reports that some suspected Bandits trained in BOTS have been arrested in ZIM and may appear in court.
Botswana must accommodate these people because they the ones who have been calling for a war against ZIM. So these people are running away in fear of the impending invasion which you RANGA and NDANJI have been supporting left right and center Talk of double dealing. Does KHAMA want to tell the world things are now OK in ZIM then. Yesterday he was calling them refuguees and suddenly they are illegal immigrants.
Mhofeti • pasizw@yahoo.co.uk Subject: 5 000 deported from Botswana. Wed, 24 Dec 2008 23:59:48 • Wise Man, you gave me a good laugh by .... you may have a point for once. Anyway who said Tsvangirai is a refugee? Running away from what? I thought Tsvangirai was staying away in protest for his passport.
Nova, Edinburgh • na Subject: GET OFF OUR BACKS! YOU BIG BULLIES Wed, 24 Dec 2008 12:55:49 • Sanctions never worked on Iraq. The proof is that troops are now hastily being transferred to continue their bullying tactics in Afghanistan.
Thousands more will die but what do the western bullies care? Their own nations will also suffer, so what exactly is the West trying to prove? It proves they are Bullies.
Bullying in Britain was outlawed by the Bullies themselves sometime ago, yet those Bullies who run the British Parliament still bully. its inherent in their genes. except now (with equality) the female politicians of the west are also Bullies, or perhaps are the men are hiding behind your skirts, eh,Ms CondiRice? another ancient rule of the thumb - men hide behidn women's skirts.
but nevertheless, we all know Bullyng still continues in the playgrounds and those playgrounds include our backwoods of Africa.
If you vehemently disagree, then ignore the pleas of MDC-T and drop and stop the Sancshuns and we will show you exactly what ZIMBABWE can do without Sancshuns. If not, so be it. Karma rules.
n/a • n/a Subject: Botswana Wed, 24 Dec 2008 11:43:00 • Samas and Chiweshe- I buried my brother last week who died needlessly. He could have been saved if medication were available and medical personnel around.My brother has left behind children whose ages are 6, 4 and 2 years old. Who will look after these children? Who do I blame for this? I put the blame squarely on those who called for, supported and imposed sanctions against an impoverished country like Zimbabwe. I blame those who by their actions have made the economy scream so that medical personnel have had no option but to look for greener pastures. I blame those ,who having sabotaged and engineered the collapse of the economy, have taken advantage of this to poach qualified medical staff from a struggling developing country which has invested heavily in the training of such staff at great expense to itself. If you two had been at my brother's funeral and had spouted your nonsense, you would not have seen the soles of your shoes for the dust as you would have had Bush shoes thrown at you from all directions. Many families in Zimbabwe who are burying their family members unnecessarily are very angry.Which family in Zimbabwe has not buried a loved one prematurely? None.
So if you have nothing positive to contribute, put your sock in it. Sanctions kill.I million Iraqis were killed in Iraq when it was under sanctions. The majority of Zimbabweans demand that these sanctions are removed immediately. They are not killing the elite but are killing the ordinary Zimbabwean. Period.
na • na Subject: FEEDING THE 5,000 Wed, 24 Dec 2008 11:32:01 • endured during their arrest and subsequent detention in Botswana prisons? do you mean training camps?
THE GHOST OF BODICEA • na. Subject: IS IT A CONSPIRACY? Wed, 24 Dec 2008 11:28:48 • ...those people entered Botswana in a way that violated immigration laws of the country, therefore they are illegal immigrants... vuka eiweh, the lot of you!
I believe these 5,000 are the trained militia who are now infiltrating our country to wreak havoc and kill after being trained in Botswana. what a brilliant strategy, sending them home for Christmas as deportees.
I dont believe it for one minute. Once they are safely inside the country the guns will be delivered by air and road along with necessary troops.
Ranga • na Subject: na Wed, 24 Dec 2008 09:12:09 • snoopy and dat red baron, I agree with you that colonial boundaries were drawn arbitrarily and in addition colonialism introduced the idea of private property, thus creating some of the problems Africa is facing today as well as affecting the free movement of Africans. However, you should also consider that during that time Africa was underpopulated so it was easy for people to move from point A to B.
Ranga • n/a Subject: Botswana Wed, 24 Dec 2008 09:01:38 • Nxumalo Mbuso, those people entered Botswana in a way that violated immigration laws of the country, therefore they are illegal immigrants. Botswana is not a province of Zimbabwe. About Botswana training MDC militia, there are still investigations going on so we have to wait for the findings. Recently, Motlanthe, the President of South Africa said SADC did not believe allegations by Zimbabwe that Botswana was training MDC militia. It would be good if you (Nxumalo) give us the evidence.
Wise Man • N/A Subject: N/a Wed, 24 Dec 2008 05:52:59 • Mhofeti, you may have a point for once, especially given that chances are high that they are MDC supporters being brutalised. However your conclusion may be wrong, it only shows that Tsvangirai is not as close to Khama as you all have concluded, there is a difference between being given refuge and being consulted for Botswana decisions. Thus, despite being given refuge in Botswana, he is still a nobody there with no influence.
Nxumalo Mbuso • nmbuso@gmail.com Subject: Botswana Wed, 24 Dec 2008 00:37:50 • Ndanji and Ranga always. Botswana is trying to wash their dirty linen in public. Kicking out theese ZIMBOs out of the country now makes no logic. Evidence is there already that there are Bandits training for attacking civilians in Zim.
What is an illegal immigrant? If a person has been in Bots for 5 years and some 20years and today you call that person ilegal immigrant. This is a stupid way of covering up and will not help matters either.
Sakhelene zinini.
Ranga • n/a Subject: n/a Wed, 24 Dec 2008 00:22:34 • Muti, may be we need to engage in a conceptual analysis to figure out which government is brutal: Botswana or Zimbabwe. How do you conceptualize brutal?
Mhofeti • pasizw@yahoo.co.uk Subject: 5 000 deported from Botswana. Tue, 23 Dec 2008 23:51:35 • What does that say about Tsvangirai those deportation being carried out right under his nose? We can call them illegal immigrants this and that but it's not a secret that the intention of the majority if not all these people is nothing other than earning a living. It's only the heartless that doubt the humanitarian crisis that's driving them out of Zimbabwe in spans and droves. The aspiring leader of Zimbabwe can't convince his host to excercise a bit of leniency with people in a similar political and economical struggle. That speaks volumes about the relationship between Khama and Tsvangirai. Honestly it's strange that something like that happens when you are hosting an official of Tsvangirai's repute. Or maybe it's another move meant to increase pressure on calls for Mugabe's ouster for failing Zimbabweans. Nothing unusual about that BUT the least that Tsvangirai could do was to call for restraint on dealing with Zimbabweans and I'm sure he could have gained political mileage as a better leader who identifies with them INDEED.
Muti • son of the soil Subject: Brutal Tue, 23 Dec 2008 18:50:38 • Botswana gvt is brutal
samas • n/a Subject: n/a Tue, 23 Dec 2008 14:28:07 • Chiweshe you are enlightened. I cannot agree with you more.
snoopy and dat red baron • na Subject: TAKING BACK THE LAND? Tue, 23 Dec 2008 12:05:22 • Prior to 1888 our land was from the Limpopo to Lake Tanganyika and we walked when wanted and we went where we wanted, according to the seasons and where the manna was.
then came the with the colonial Europeans came new rules and new borders...and now everyone is permanently parked in little boxes for this and that and no go areas are demarcated by border posts and you have these potluck presidents dictating who goes where and who doesnt.
Taking back the farms was one thing but taking back the borders would be a really serious statement.
Ranga • n/a Subject: n/a Tue, 23 Dec 2008 12:02:41 • Ten, Botswana is a sovereign state so it has a right to deport illegal immigrants. For your information Tsvangirai is not an illegal immigrant in Botswana. It appears you don't know what it means to be an illegal immigrant. Ian Khama is hosting Tsvangirai so stop lying to us. It's not a secret. As for Chiweshe, the Zimbabwe crisis is complex, it cannot be limited to sanctions, doing so is being too simplistic. The crisis a result of both internal and external factors. Sanctions have nothing to do with neopatrimonialism, clientelism and patronage that you find in Zimbabwe. This is local and has had disastrous consequences to the country's economy. The Big men and the little big men are also to blame for the current mess.
ten • N/A Subject: illegal immigrants deported Tue, 23 Dec 2008 10:21:48 • the Botswana government should have mercy please, now that they are deporting illegal immigrants whom I know include Morgan Richard Tsvangirai, the leader of the opposition (MDC), unless there is gonna be selective application of the law?
ndanji • kagisoniit@gmail.com Subject: chiwese Tue, 23 Dec 2008 07:07:43 • chiwese, we know that , that person is Robert Mugabe
Chiweshe • N/A Subject: Sad Mon, 22 Dec 2008 22:36:47 • It is all because of sanctions that this is happenning. Hideous sanctions and regime change agents want our hardworking people to suffer like this. My foot! what crap.We know the cause of this, we know whose responsible for our misery. One day you will squeal like pigs.
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