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Nduna Nduku • ndunan@hotmail.co.uk
Subject: RE: Day Dreaming
Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:49:43 • This is utterly day dreaming as they the supposedly friendly countries are going to the IMF for funds. This is a fallacy. Let's be really and start walking the talk not this political chaltan.
Mhofeti • pasizw@yahoo.co.uk
Subject: Comprehensive financial package
Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:56:15 • McGabe when you say ....On paper Russia has all that money..... you confirm exactly what I thought a person who has lived in Russia for 15 years must know. I wasn't prosecuting the moral of Russia donating US$10 billion on the backdrop of its citizens living in abject poverty. Maybe just cautioning against the use of unnecessary extremes to drive a point when you can do so without the use of stunts and special effects.
n/a • n/a
Subject: Aid
Tue, 13 Jan 2009 10:56:17 • Barack Obama knows that Africa needs to be left alone
Africa must fend for itself and President-elect Obama has no money, no reason and no time to help the continent
Carl Mortished
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/columnists/article5133907.ece
12/nov,2008
McGabe • n/a
Subject: n/a
Tue, 13 Jan 2009 02:30:25 • Chimoko you are 100 % right.I spent 9 years in Russia myself the truth is that Russians have got a lot to do in terms of helping their own poor than giving Zimbabwe 10billion dollars. On paper the Russians have all that money but frankly speaking not to give Zimbabwe.Mhofeti shamwari you don't know what you are talking about my friend. Charamba is day dreaming.
Mhofeti • pasizw@yahoo.co.uk
Subject: Comprehensive financial package
Mon, 12 Jan 2009 23:11:24 • Primrose isn't it ironic that on the law of average the sanctions are benefiting the so called targeted and listed individuals? I find it unbelievable that anyone with family in Zimbabwe can support sanctions especially with even admittance by credible sources that they are hurting the wrong target. Also sad that our government in waiting (MDC) support sanctions. Before MDC supporters protest, maybe they will care to tell us the official MDC stand regarding sanctions?
Chimoko there is nothing unusual about you leaving for greener pastures to fill the gap left by the educated Russians who left for greener pastures whatever that means (assuming that you are part of the 20% living above poverty line for the past 15 years). What's unusual is you thinking Russia can struggle to raise US$10 billion.
n/a • n/a
Subject: Package
Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:33:43 • The West is broke. The East has the dosh. Globalisation is unravelling and global superpower status has shifted to the East. Bank of England interest rate 1.5% the lowest in the 319 year history of the bank. US is busy printing money out of thin air or going cap in hand to the China for bail -outs. UK is hot footing to Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates and China to beg for bail -outs. UK mulling over printing lots of dosh from thin air as well. The global finacial system is in meltdown. Massive unemployment in US and UK. Businesses that have been operating for more than 100 years (Woolworths) going bust. House repossessions in the UK going through the roof. House prices in the US have crashed. The world has gone crazy. Has the US and UK got good governance? Have the US and UK got legitimate govts?Have the US/UK got the best economic brains? Have the US/UK have transparency in their dealings? Have the US/UK got monetary and fisal policies next to none? Why are their economies in free fall? Are we missing a point here? Why are they ditching neo-liberal policies of the free market?
Zimbabweans , do not wait for aid from the West. It is not going to come soon. Self -help and looking to friendly countries with the dosh who are willing to invest is the way forward. If the package is there, we will all appreciate the gesture.
Whether a Zanu-PF or MDC member, this is the time for all of us to unite and work hard to save our country. Whether black, white, brown, yellow or whatever, this is the time to unite and turnaround our fortunes. Forget the politics for the time being.
n/a • n/a
Subject: Background to the problem. Power Sharing negotiations
Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:17:57 • Let me start by qouting an article written on the 2nd of September, with this link http://www.mg.co.za/article/2008-09-02-aus-patience-with-zim-wears-thin.
There is a problem and we still hope the mediation will continue and we still hope wisdom will prevail, Tanzanian Foreign Minister Bernard Membe said in Dar es Salaam.
We would prefer a solution be arrived at immediately because of the escalating economic crisis. We still pray that a solution will be found towards a 50% power-sharing solution, he told reporters in Tanzania's commercial capital.
Tanzania chaired the AU, the chief guarantee of the September 15 deal. IF you follow this link http://ippmedia.com/ipp/guardian/2008/07/04/117779.html, you see that AU rejected the June 27 outcome as reported and decided to resort to Power Sharing. So SADC (which I believe is the junior guarantee) was mandated to organise negotiations culminationg in the signing ceremony. My question is, DOes SADC believe the deal on the table is a 50-50 Peace deal as AU (Chief guarantee) reportedly wanted or they just want a quick fix. When it comes to the will of the people, it is clear what people want, they want lasting Peace so they can assume their natural roles. Zimbabweans are generally known to be Peace-loving and gentle in manner and character and this Violence which happenned has tarnished their image. So my understanding is that a 50-50 Peace must guarantee Peace by sharing Power 50-50. IS what we have on the table 50-50? SADC must answer this. So when it comes to ministerial allocations, one might ask, Chinonetsa chii kukamura massorted sweets if the formula is 50-50. Nhonga ndinhongewo, someone might suggest. Looking closely we hear ministerial posts were allocated and then endorsed by SADC, but the other party was not happy. Was this 50-50. HOme Affairs was said to be 'shared'. What if the other minister ends up being a figure head whilst the other executes instructions from the top and passes them to the Commissioners who are largely Zanu-PF. Defence is wholly controlled by zanu. We have had abductions recently. We had arrests of Politicians and CIvil Society leaders. We had Violence during elections. These are some of the things that affect the Peace of citizens. SADC, is there guarantee that this will end when the deal that is on the table is implemented? You a a guarantee of Peace to this deal mind you.
We still believe in the deal signed on the 15 of September and we would like to see it implemented. Security ministries play a critical role in guaranteeing the Peace of citizens and so I thought maybe they would be shared 50-50. Is this what we have now.
So my Prayer is that we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Personal Saviour. He is the Prince of Peace and he is coming soon. I urge Zimbabweans to PRAY AND FAST this week for the salvation of the country. I revealed last time how the book of Malachi and Joel reveals that if we do not repent of our sins, God might allow curses to afflict the people. The disease of Cholera came onto the people coupled with various Economic problems and the people of Zimbabwe are crying for Salvation. God the Almighty is our redeemer. PRAY HARD for a revelation from the Almighty. I thank you.
Sadhaki Observer • n/a
Subject: God is for us all
Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:47:10 • All I can is - Mwari Ndewedu Tose, God is for us all!
samas • n/a
Subject: n/a
Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:45:46 • This is a false confidence-building exercisse meant to appease the dispirited population. It will never work. With credit crunch biting no one wants to part with that huge sum of money. Charamba pliz give us a break.
N/A • N/A
Subject: N/A
Mon, 12 Jan 2009 13:58:17 • Global dynamics are shifting guys. Who thought one day America would go cap in hand to ask for bail out from China.Who though baba Brown would also look east requesting for a bail out?
We have resources in our country. All we need to do is mortgage them at favorable rates and build our wealth.
I bought houses ne mortgage and I consider myself reasonable well off despite economic probles. Why because I use mortgage wisely and now I have fully paid out houses.
So if we can mortgage our Uranium, our gas, Our Diamonds etc, and we manage all this for Zimbabweans from Plumtree to Mutare, and from Chirundu to Beit Bridge-why not.
Lets not wait for hand outs. Lets use our resources. Simple.
Didley Squat, Tasmania • na.
Subject: package on the cards?
Mon, 12 Jan 2009 13:47:44 • Another package on the cards? its been on the cards for years now that there will be a commuter rail service between Seki and Harare - incidentally whatever happened to the series that old policeman wrote about his experiences travelling on the train from Norton. It would be nice to hear from him again.
and talking about this financial package - can we have some real transparency in exactly how much is received and exactly where it is spent please so we can stuff those Govt critics (both within and without Zimbabwe) right in the eye? Otherwise they will never believe it has not gone straight into the pockets of the Ministers as they always claim. Transparency is the route if we are to succeed.
If each Council is given a grant they must account for it cent by cent to the people who voted them in.
starchild • seagul@quicknet.ch
Subject: financial package
Mon, 12 Jan 2009 13:33:41 • Mungu ibariki Zimbabwe-Africa.
sango • n/a
Subject: n/a
Mon, 12 Jan 2009 13:09:57 • At this point i think Zimbabweans can be forgiven for being skeptical of these aid package announcements. We have heard these pronouncements with the Chinese slated to give aid, then the Libyans and then the Indians and it all came to naught. This is obviously a well timed gimmick meant to scare the option to join the inclusive government under the guise of we can go it alone without you. There is no tangeible proof that any nation as friendly as they maybe is willing to give anything to an illegitimate government, if there were going to give this money they would have done so a long time ago. What is also curious is that the article or source has failed to indicate which nations are likely to give this aid, it is quite obvious that they remain nameless because there if they were to be named, it would result in a denial from them which would subsequently result in massive embarrassment to the regime. This would not be a precedent, one recalls the announcement that Chinese were going to inject several billions into the economy or that the Indians were buying up Zisco which all ended in swift denials from the would be investors.
Zanu-pf and Mugabe need to face the facts that friendly or otherwise nations will not invest anything in an environment where there is an unacceptable political environment and a harsh investor climate.Simple.
Primrose Mutakanyi • N/a
Subject: N/a
Mon, 12 Jan 2009 10:25:30 • I hope this is true. We desperately need a sustainable cash injection. However, between US 5 billion and US 10 billion is not sufficient to turn around the economy or to act as a relief for more than 5 months. I have seen how the US$ is being inflated in our country. We need a continuos injection for a period of about a year. I no longer trust the so called Ministers because they have lied to us for a long time. The other year it was Mr MADE who lied to the nation that the grain silos were full to capacity when in fact there was nothing. Please form an inclusive government so that our country can move foward. I do not see why Zanu PF or Mr. Mugabe should lay claim to any particular ministries. They have failed us. Those who blame the sanctions only without blaming the Zanu PF led government is blinkered. Yes, the sanctions have affected us gravely, especially us the ordinary Zimbabweans. Zanu PF sympathisers are getting richer by the day and Mr. Mugabe and his family can afford to fly to exotic Far East and lstay in laxurios hotels while the rest of us have to contend with cholera and abject poverty. Its a pity we now have to rely on the donor community. As for the MDC, they should concentrate on findings proper and effective ways of improving our welfare when they join the GNU. We want a government that is answerable to the people and not Godlike cults who behave as if they hold title deeds to a country called Zimbabwe. If the future of Zimbabwe is to be bright, lets move away from party politics and compete with each other on who delivers the best interests of our Country and its citizens. Lets move away from the mentality of the 1980s. We cant continue to live in the past. The majority of our people were born post 1970s and it is not fair to saddle them with memories of yesteryear, no matter how others feel about it. If one gets old, its a sign to face the truth. Let young people take responsibility for their future. Do not impose your ethics or values on them. Theirs may even be better than your old ones. The country belongs to the living citizens of Zimbabwe and the future generation. There is no need to narture the seeds of hatred amoungst out people. I am a very proud daughter of Zimbabwe who understands how good Zimbabwean people are in their nature. The only problem that I see is the patronage system that has enveloped our leadership. They very much want to own people. I feel that they would be very happy to own some Zimbabweans as their slaves if they could have their way. Some of these so called ministers would own as much as a thousand of their countrymen and women as slaves. Taneta nazvo izvi. Dzorerayi masimba kuvanhu. Most of these guys who are in government are not fit to run Mugabe piggery project, yet they feel they have a God given right to run our country. What a sham.
Mafirekureva • na
Subject: Financial Package
Mon, 12 Jan 2009 09:22:48 • I hope this is true for the sake of suffering Zimbabweans.
But fellow Zimbos forgive me, I may sound pessimistic but as they say once bitten twice shy. The followings issues worry me:
Point 1: The source of this piece of information, George Charamba (that is all I need to say on this one).
Point 2: In this world you do not get anything for nothing, what is Zimbabwe giving in return to whoever is providing this massive financial package? Never believe that any country from the East or West will give us meaningful resources without strings attached. We need to know the details of this deal before celebrating, tingafarire n’anga inobata mai (we may welcome a wolf in sheep skin).
Point 3: Will the package really reach the intended beneficiaries? Why do I ask this? For the record, I think on the balance of things Gono is the worst RBZ head in the history of Zim but I will give him credit for at least one thing, productive sector (industry and agriculture) support. The idea was noble and without fault, the amount of resources marshalled to this end was a marvel. But why did the programme fail? The resources were largely hijacked by the few and too politicised. The generality of the people who would have made good use of the resources did not get them because of the greedy of the few and because of politics. We know of people getting three, four, tractors, influential people getting combine harvesters while owning game ranches only, we know of people who are good farmers that were denied the implements because they are MDC, etc. etc. .
Point 4: How will the package be accounted for, who will monitor its distribution, use and pay back by beneficiaries to ensure sustainability. I say this because in Gono's efforts to revive the productive sector this is one of his greatest weaknesses. You just do not dish out resources like candy to people without holding them to account for the use of the resources. This problem led to wide spread abuse of the resources because opportunistic beneficiaries knew that there will be no follow up and they will never need to pay back. Hence most of the resources were traded on the black market for quick high returns. Will this not happen with this new package? Will the beneficiaries not clamour for more resources year after year but with nothing to show for it like our famous new farmers (still new after over 8 years on the ground!). Will we not mortgage our future for the immediate benefit of the few?
Just my thoughts fellow Zimbabweans. Lets hope for the best.
Patrick Fletcher • hajray@gmail.com
Subject: Comprehensive financial package on the cards: govt
Mon, 12 Jan 2009 06:42:54 • Sweet! That is the way to go. By the way, has anybody seen Tsvangirai, or his he the sneak hissing at my feet in the grass? How is it that fellow, Tsvangirai, wants power and the people don't know where he is? LOL!
Chimoko • n/a
Subject: Day Dreaming
Mon, 12 Jan 2009 05:29:28 • If Zimbabwe is counting on countries like Russia and Venezuela I would like to say good luck on that one. I have lived in Russia for the past 15 years . Almost 80% of Russians live below the poverty line. Just like Zimbabwe the country is poor all it's educated people have left the country for greener pastures. On Venezuella besides the privately ownered oil companies the country needs help. If it's China I am sorry Chinese will colonise our country something that we are not going to allow in zimbabwe. Charamba don't count your eggs yet. SADC is broke we all know that they are even failing to finance the peace keeping in Dafur.
Omugabe • Dziva@sanandresano.com
Subject: Look Inward & Look East for Self-development, Zim Patriots!
Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:24:10 • All along we have had good reasons to anticipate that help is on the way for the brave and virtuous people of Zimbabwe.
Europeans CANNOT forever strangle other nations without an let up.
The 'forces of good' that is administering the planet MUST in time respond with positivity towards virtuous people like Zim Patriots.
Now that negative economic conditions are crippling the wicked West, this is a good time for the forces of good to step in and finish them off! In this way, the planet can begin to breathe a sigh of relief.
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